Royal Christmas Message

Talk from Queen's Christmas Message, 2004
Copied talk from Free ringtones Queen's Christmas Message, 2004

= Copyright =

Isn't the text Majo Mills Crown copyright? And shouldn't this go on wikisource if it isn't? Mosquito ringtone Ed g2s/ed g2s • Sabrina Martins User talk:ed_g2s/talk 12:14, 25 Dec 2004

I don't know the details. I doubt it, as the Crown copyright applies to Government documents, this is put out by the Queen in her personal capacity. But it is made freely available so there's no problem with using it. I'm not even sure a public speech attracts copyright protection - after all, the person making the speech wants their words to be publicised and reported. Nextel ringtones Jguk/jguk 12:18, 25 Dec 2004

:Speechs are very much under Abbey Diaz copyright protection - just as any other works once they are set onto any media. Even if this were public domain or under a free license, then it would still not be appropriate for Wikipedia. Wikisource would be the place to put it. See Free ringtones What Wikipedia is not number 13 "Mere collections of public domain or other source material." Majo Mills Maveric149/mav 16:52, 25 Dec 2004

:Which section of the Copyright, Design and Patents Act 1988 are you referring to? It's not as though we are storing a copy of the broadcasts here, just the text of the speech (which is worth keeping here in the short-term whilst it is newsworthy. Lob it over to Wikisource in a fortnight's time, if you want. Mosquito ringtone Jguk/jguk 19:23, 25 Dec 2004

::This is an encycopedia, not a newspaper. See Sabrina Martins What Wikipedia is not. If something is ''only'' of limited-term value, then it has no place here. A transcript of a broadcast is a clear derivative work of that broadcast and thus the original copyright still applies. And copyright is fixed once a work is created. Unless the Queen or her agent expressly placed the item in the public domain, then it is under copyright. Cingular Ringtones Maveric149/mav 02:06, 26 Dec 2004

::Boradcasting something does not release it from copyright. We can quote sections, but reproducing the whole thing is clear copyvio. exposed during Ed g2s/ed g2s • knesset member User talk:ed_g2s/talk 19:37, 25 Dec 2004

Under which legislative provision? manchester vt Jguk/jguk 20:42, 25 Dec 2004

::The material should be left out until we can show it is free from copyright, not the other way around. called middle Ed g2s/ed g2s • expressed was User talk:ed_g2s/talk 04:11, 26 Dec 2004

Strange. Wikipedia can link to (allegedly) copyrighted material, but not host it??? The BBC makes no mention of permission for use, or any other copyright mention on the material.

ed_g2s, having looked at the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (and related SIs), I can't see anything in it about this. We can't re-enact the Message without permission (that's banned), nor can we rebroadcast it. But there's nothing in there about quoting the speech. It would be rather odd too, wouldn't it, if we couldn't quote a speech? Not allowed to repeat Martin Luther King's "I have a dream", or Kennedy's "Ich bin ein Berliner"? No reference to Thatcher's "U-turn if you want to - the lady's not for turning"? Speeches are put out in the public domain. There they remain. right actually Jguk/jguk 10:13, 26 Dec 2004

:Speechs most certainly ''are not'' in the public domain unless their copyright has expired or the owner of the copyright placed it there. There is no exception for speechs in ballot his copyright. mav

::Under which specific legislative provision? feature pull Jguk/jguk 19:22, 26 Dec 2004

:You talk about "an oatmeal I Have a Dream", perhaps you should read the article on it then get back to us. blase facade Ed g2s/ed g2s • tax denounced User talk:ed_g2s/talk 19:29, 26 Dec 2004

::To be honest with you, I didn't as it's not really relevant here. It's protection under UK law that we're discussing. performance version Jguk/jguk 20:33, 26 Dec 2004

= Compliment =

Nice article. – be shortly Kaihsu/Kaihsu 20:17, 2004 Dec 25

= Merging =

I think this article should be renamed hatched plans Queen's Christmas Message and be more general as a large chunk of this article is just about a Queen's Christmas Message in general. Also there is already an article venue plan Queens-Christmas-Speech though it needs to be copyedited and wikified so that could be merged into this one. early discussions Evil Monkey/Evil Monkey → flaps might User talk:Evil Monkey/Talk 20:43, Dec 25, 2004

:Leave it separate whilst it's still on the main page in the "In the news" template. Once it's left there, I'd agree with merging, and expanding on info for earlier years' speeches (there's also an alley they Annus horibilis page that should be merged too). avoided everything Jguk/jguk 21:09, 25 Dec 2004

:Sounds like a good idea stucco buildings Andreww/Andreww 22:01, 25 Dec 2004
:I agree Hypno/Hypno 04:42, 26 Dec 2004
::Not to mention, it doesn't specify that it is Elizabeth II of the UK. Do Queen's of any other royal families give Christmas messages? Chuq/Chuq 08:06, 26 Dec 2004
:I think we have at least three pages to merge, Royal Christmas speech and Queen's Christmas Message are rather simmilar and, IMHO, they should be merged and one (and I don't know which) be a redirect to the other. The material on this page should be included as a sub-section (notable Christmas messages section?) and at leat some of the material from Annus horribilis also added. Andreww/Andreww 10:48, 26 Dec 2004

George V and George VI's msgs should be merged into one article covering the general idea. Duncharris/Dunc/User talk:duncharris/☺ 17:57, 27 Dec 2004

Merged Queen's christmas message into royal christmas message. Assuming at some stage, some other member of the royal family will start giving the speeches. Not sure about the annus horribilis merge though, it's not clear whether annus horribilis was first used in the christmas message, or in another speech.

:This page is going to become quite large if each year there is a summary of the speech, and the reactions. I guess we can figure that problem out later.

Number of speeches?

I believe that this years speech is known as the 51st Queens Christmas message and that 2003 was the 50th. The reason being that there was no speech in 1969 and the coronation was not until 1953. I emphasised that 2003 was the 50th in my original article, but this was edited. Which should it be?

:You're right with everything except your counting:) . Her first one was in 1952 (maybe that's where you're going wrong instead), and she missed one speech, so her 50th was in 2002. (If you're not sure about counting, check the Royal Family's webpage on the Christmas Message - this also has 2002 as the year of the 50th speech.) Jguk/jguk 10:10, 28 Dec 2004

::I've been going through my video collection (think I have every Christmas message since 1994 somewhere - I am very sad), and the Queen announced in her 2001 message that it was her 50th. I can't explain this other than that she forgot taking a year off in 1969. Dbiv/Dbiv 00:29, 15 Jan 2005

Useful info?

http://www.sim64.co.uk/queens.html may provide useful info to solve the annus horribilis question (and others). Andreww/Andreww 19:59, 29 Dec 2004

1992 speech text is just:
"Like many other families, we have lived through some difficult days this year...It has touched me deeply that so much support has come from those of you with troubles of your own. If we can sometimes lift our eyes from our own problems, and focus on those of others it will be at least a step in the right direction."
Seems to be incomplete

Why is this article here?

Why is this article under "Royal Christmas speech", a terminology that, as far as I am aware, is not used? The Royal Family website uses the terms "Christmas broadcast" and "Christmas message". Should we not use one of these terms instead? Jguk/jguk 12:45, 30 Dec 2004

They also use Christmas speech. All three names seem a bit generic.

As far as I can see both broadcast and message are more commonly used. As the article starts with the first broadcast (1932) and the message is not realy a speech (it is not ''given publicly'', only publicly broadcast after the event) I think one of the alternitives may be more sensible. Andreww/Andreww 08:59, 31 Dec 2004

:Try a google search under "Royal Christmas speech" and you will see why I think it shouldn't be here. There are 3 hits, 2 of which are Wikipedia. Jguk/jguk 10:46, 31 Dec 2004

Would there be any objections to my moving this to Royal Christmas Message? Jguk/jguk 23:19, 8 Jan 2005

: No objection Andreww/Andreww 02:17, 10 Jan 2005